On this episode of cultureXchanges, Meridian’s CEO Ambassador Stuart Holliday speaks with artist Jeff Koons to learn about his upbringing and the impact of his work on a global scale. Koons is one of the most well-known working artists today, with his large-scale sculptures and bold paintings touching on ideas of commodity, spectacle, and consumerism. His work belongs to the collections of The Broad, the Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, the Museum of Modern Art, the Tate, and the Whitney Museum of American Art. Koons has received numerous awards and honors in recognition of his cultural achievements, including the Officer of the French Legion of Honour; the State Department’s Medal of the Arts for his outstanding commitment to the Art in Embassies Program and international cultural exchange; and the U.S. Consulate General’s Award for Cultural Diplomacy in Florence. His work has been exhibited extensively in New York, London, Chicago, Basel, Florence, Seoul, and elsewhere.
Episode Transcript
Host
Hello and welcome to culture exchanges, a podcast at the intersection of the Humanities and cultural diplomacy. I’m your host, Terry Harvey, Vice president of the Meridian Center for Cultural Diplomacy. This podcast series explores the impact of the arts and culture on diplomatic relations across the world through discussions with cultural diplomacy experts. On this episode of Cultural Exchanges, Meridian CEO Ambassador Stewart Holiday speaks with artist Jeff Koons to learn about his upbringing and the impact of his work on a global scale. Queens is one of the most well known working artists today, with his large scale sculptures and bold paintings touching on ideas of commodity, spectacle and consumerism. His work has been exhibited extensively in New York, London, Chicago, Basel, Florence, Seoul and elsewhere. His work belongs to the collections of the broad, the Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, the Museum of Modern Art, the Tate and the Whitney Museum of American Art. James has received numerous awards and honors and recognition of his cultural achievements, including the officer of the French Legion of Honor, the State Department’s Medal of the Arts for his outstanding commitment to the art and embassies program, and international cultural exchange and the US Consulate General’s Award for Cultural Diplomacy in Florence.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
Well, Jeff Koons, thank you for joining us today at Meridian. We’re thrilled and have been admiring your work for a long time and the way it. Not only is amazing arts, but the the way you’ve used it to connect with people and and in fact to help our country through your work with programs such as art and Embassy as well as as other Internet international installations. But I wanted to start really maybe with. York, PA, where you grew up, was wondering if as you grew up, you know, in a town in Pennsylvania, probably one that was a mid sized town with some agricultural areas and some manufacturing. When did you first sort of start looking around the world and thinking or?
Jeff Koons
Imagining that one day your works would be global, you know, ambassador, it’s really a wonderful to join you today and to be able to to have this conversation. But when I grew up in New York, it was an industrial town. There were about 170,000 people. But I I was always aware that York had a tremendous heritage. And it’s the location that the Continental Congress really got together and formed its body, and being able to work on the Articles of Confederation. So we like to think of it as maybe the First Capital of the United States.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
Yeah, it was sort of like the Athens is to democracy. York is to America.
Jeff Koons
That’s correct. And the Continental Congress met New York, worked on the articles, but eventually moved to Philadelphia. But in this history, I was always very aware of the different signers from the the Declaration of Independence that are buried in York, at least across from where my father had as a furniture store. I know at least one side, or is buried. But my grandfather, my mother’s father, was also at one time city treasurer. He enjoyed politics, he enjoyed people, our whole family. My father’s father was the bus driver and trolley driver. So I think there was a joy of people. And I think as soon as you start to enjoy people, you start to like, you know, kind of going outside and increasing your parameters. When I think about different events that really could have led me to kind of have a interest in kind of more of an international area outside of York, I think. In 1964, going to the world’s fair had a nice kind of larging.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
Where was the world spare that?
Jeff Koons
Year it was in New York, OK, it was in New York. I was 9. And I love going to the different pavilions. I looked at the little drum collection, and I would have drums from Africa and from China and different parts of Asia. I remember going to like the German beer gardens for lunch. It was.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
You know, it’s it’s interesting. I think part of that world’s fair grounds is still there that you can see, you know, some of the mid century iconic, the globe. But there’s there’s a number of things there. But these fairs are really they speak to kind of a desire by people to understand other cultures. And to be curious about them, and I think they serve especially for people that can’t get out of playing probably in 1964. Have been very expensive to visit 20 countries, but you got to do that and and see a lot right up the road.
Jeff Koons
Yes. And the aspect of of uniting of these cultures and you know today there are there are many different types of fairs, of course we have the, the Internet that unites us. But you know within the art world as an artist we have art fairs that bring galleries and artists. Work from all over the world together. Ambassador, if I think back in my own, you know, childhood, I am an artist today, of course. But I always was involved with art from a very young age around the age of three and four. I remember my parents letting me know that they thought that I had a gift, a drawing of representing. Different objects within space, and so I started to take art lessons, but I never had any idea. Of what art could be other than, you know, just an activity of creating images. Until I went to art school where I went to college, to art school. And my first art history less. And during that lesson, my art teacher, his name was Beau Davis. My art history teacher. He brought up a slide of magnets, Olympia, and he started to speak about how in 19th century, France. How different images would have a different symbolism, and that the woman bringing this bouquet of flowers would have a certain meaning, or the black cat over in the right hand side of the the picture, and how the woman was lying in a position similar to Goya, the Spanish.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
I’m from.
Jeff Koons
So one of the paintings, he. And I have to say, ambassador, that at that moment my life changed. And I felt that I could be involved in an activity that art was an activity that could connect me to all these different human disciplines. Mm-hmm. I could be involved in philosophy and sociology, psychology, all the different sciences. They did that art so effortlessly would make these type of connections.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
That’s interesting and and a French artist no less, was the catalyst. And you’ve kept. I know you’ve been awarded the Officier of collision on Donner, and you’ve kept a particular interest in France. And I think going back to your experience having that teacher play, I think a lot of people look at or and they intuitively like it or they don’t like it. But having someone who can. Tell you the history and context and and the a little bit more about the artist is so important. It’s unfortunate that you know, in our country at least, that culture and the arts isn’t sort of viewed as one of these essential math, science, English type of disciplines, but it can really open up. I think. Don’t you agree a lot of mots and create opportunities for people, whether they’re poor, whether they come from privileged backgrounds, it really can have a profound effect, as it did on you.
Jeff Koons
Absolutely. I came from a middle class background. I mean because I was always just kind of studying art and always in my art class as a a child, I really wasn’t prepared to go to a college other than for art and it just opened up all these other disciplines. Though that I had great interest in but Ambassador holiday that the amazing experience was this experience of connectivity and being able to. To explore these different areas and you know when we were speaking about the artist, like looking at matinee, what manae loved was, the connectivity to Spanish painting. I mean, he loved Alaska Z. He, you know, he loved ogoya and this type of. Connectivity is really what’s of interest. This is what I enjoy about art. Not only can I get a sense of connectivity within my own self, my own being to feel connected to human history, my own potential as an individual, but to feel the connection with other artists, and that they’re saying joy. Their same transcendence that they experienced through finding something greater than themselves and, you know, enjoying other arts. So one of the important things for me, the art and embassies program to be involved as an artist, being able to have the opportunity to participate in different cultural exchanges is the relevance of this type of connectivity. Just the way I’d like to always think of our genes and our DNA. The way they’re interconnected are external world is interconnected in a very similar way. It’s just outside our bodies and it’s not internal. But this same type of linkage of being able to be part of a greater whole is really taking place.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
So when you think about your art, which has been described as, you know, universally appealing, I mean, part of it is bringing people together around a shared delight, whether it’s in Doha or Bilbao or LA. Do you intentionally try to kind of transcend a particular local cultural viewpoint to to bring people to some sort of higher level of common understanding? Or are you trying to tailor or incorporate? When you’re doing an installation in a particular place, I know you did one in Greece that brought in some of the local history and context. Talk a little bit about how you think of. Your works in terms of that universality versus the particular local or local connection. And that would make it maybe not as appealing to somebody from a large variety.
Jeff Koons
You know, Pastor, I I really have to pinch myself. I I, I really, Stuart. I I really have to. When I was younger, I really just wanted to participate. I wanted to be able to have a be part of a group maybe to be part of an avant-garde. And with my friends speak about what the possibility of art. Could be have a view of what our generation could do, how we could give kind of a viewpoint of what art could be. And to be able to have that group to be in dialogue with, to be able to become larger and to be in communication because it’s really about communication with other people, to be in dialogue, to have the opportunity that it really is, you know, global and universal is. You know, been a an amazing experience. I’ve never have tried to create art, just that people would like it. I’ve always tried to make things that I could have some discovery for myself in what it means to be human and to be able to. Transcend intellectually, Deb a a greater perspective of what my potential as a human being can be. Now in saying that. You know when you’re younger, you love all those feelings and sensations of this type of experience, but at a certain point, I don’t know exactly when it happened, but you start to within my own life. But you really start to think about the audience as being. Equally as important that you really want to share the information with. That sometimes I like to really think of it in more primitive times it in a kind of a hunter society that you learn how to take care of your own needs. Maybe you’re able to go out, you’re able to get a rabbit for yourself to be able to eat, but at a certain point you realize that you want to hunt the mammoth. So that you can come back and feed the whole community and it’s the same with, I think a maturity of being that at a certain point you really want to see.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
Do you think just keying off on that point? It seems like artists in particular and maybe performers, conductors creators, seem to have more of this ability to bridge cultures than our political environment does where we have. Countries competing looking at 0 sum who’s going to get the resources? Who’s going to get the advantage? But then underneath that political level is this incredible cultural community all around the world with people that that connect immediate? Do you think that this disconnect there have obviously been cultures in the past that have put art at the center? You know, you think of the classical classical Greece and Rome and these these other things, but is there, is there anything we can do, do you think to try to strengthen those cultural connections? Between those community. That understand that building bridges is really critical in our world, especially with all the challenges we’re facing.
Jeff Koons
I think the dialogue that takes place and that the arts are able to bring to the surface easily is that we really have shared interests and we all have the same desires. We all have the same old. We all would like to have a future that can be, you know, beneficial not only to us, but for what we can perceive as the the future generations that so the arts are able to continue this area that possibly more. Easy for people to understand those shared values and they are shared values and that the communication and the desire to share it really has no no.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
That it’s interesting that you have taken the the step to share your art and your creations also with the State Department and through the diplomatic channels. You know, there’s been a history of whether it’s the Jazz and Basters. Louis Armstrong going overseas on behalf of the United States, but. That must give you a sense of pride that you’re able to coming from York, PA and then evolving into this iconic artist, but to actually you’re performing a role as a diplomat. And you’re actually maybe reaching in many cases, more people than a traditional diplomat. How does that make you feel?
Jeff Koons
You know, I’m proud of my experience as a growing up in the United States. And I feel very, very fortunate for the experiences that I’ve had in my lifetime. You know, I’m. I’m proud of the experience that I’ve. Been able to. Also participate internationally, the United States has been very open to this type of exchange, and so I think that automatically as an American artist, that. I was always very aware that there was a really an openness to be participating in dialogue with European artists and Asian artists from South America that really about the world. And so you know, that’s been a fantastic experience, but I’m sorry, ambassador, could you repeat that?
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
By the way, it’s Stuart Stuart. Thank. Thank you for, but please call me Stuart. The question you know really was you made a volunteer, if you will, to have your works join our diplomatic world and not just exhibit in museums. But in ambassadors, residences and then in in Beijing, actually I think it was your tulips in front of the the embassy. I think that speaks to, I believe, your foundational pride in your American Ness, but also in your your role and try to bring this universal. Language to to more countries and more people and. And really I was just pointing out the fact that you don’t have to do that. That’s something you volunteered to do and to participate in. And and it’s it’s it’s quite a meaningful contribution you’re making.
Jeff Koons
Stuart, when I was relatively young artist, I remember seeing an image of Leo Castelli, the art dealer with two artists, with Jasper Johns and Bob Rauschenberg with President Kennedy. And they were at the White House, and they were, I think, offering some type of image, some sculpture or something to the President or they were making some award out of one of these sculptures. But I thought that was so fantastic that Jasper Johns and Bob Rauschenberg were there. And that they were, you know, representing the Fine Arts and the arts but that. So politically that the the government was finding the relevance of the arts and the significance of of the Fine Arts really participating in culture, that it’s just not kind of Hollywood and it’s just not that maybe more the entertainment side. When I say entertainment. You know, these are all, but I mean, we’re more aware of film and music, but that also the visual arts are really significant contributors to the the culture. The world and I found meaning in that and I think that I always wanted to carry that. You know, I think the arts are involved in generosity. I met the Spanish artist Salvador Dali when I was young, when I was, when I was 19. He took the time out to say hello and so it’s. You know it’s about. The world and about trying to have impact try to be able to communicate to people you know my work I think is really based in acceptance. I think I’ve tried to accept who I am as an individual and once you learn to accept yourself, you’re able to actually go outside. And you interact more with the world, which leads you to kind of the final destination, which is the acceptance of others where you’re able to accept other. That’s the beginning of that, though. Starts with ourselves, and so my work tries to have a dialogue that people never when they first look at it, they find it very open. They can enter into the dialogue quite easily. But I think that its final journey is to. This type of universal acceptance of each.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
Other that’s very powerful. I was just going to ask you one or maybe two final questions. One of the things that Meridian is involved with is of course you know, creating exhibitions for public audiences in other countries. But we have had a program at the State Department that involves murals in particularly countries where. There are other challenges and and in this case an American artist will go to a country and a community and work with a local artist and create a mural, a beautiful mural that will be be artistically interesting but also maybe convey. A message of or message of opportunity and I wanted to ask you about this idea. When we think of artists, we think of them as individuals very much so with their own distinct styles and DNA. But it seems that there’s also a wonderful opportunity in what I guess you would call Co creation or collaboration. And I was wondering if you could just comment on the degree to which you think an artist can either be inspired by someone from another country. Will work with them actually to create something.
Jeff Koons
I really believe in both. I I believe in the set. Trying to. Define or to find something in life experience that can help the individual themselves get more out of it to to expand what their sensory perception of life experience can be. But at the same time. To be able to be in dialogue with others about that experience, it’s very hard to achieve anything by the. I mean the development of human history would not be very far if it was always just left to the self to continue to create all the different discoveries or to work out different problems. You really need to have collaboration and we have to work together and even when you think about. And I’m just going back to kind of like almost well, how’s this information shared? How do you share information in the arts? You know, you can absolutely do it by making a mural and working together with a group of people. And what an amazing experience because, you know, whatever group that you could be working with. To you know, also define the openness and the freedom of that project, and it could really become anything and really be exciting. I’m just gonna now bring it back to kind of the individual and I’ll bring it to like a classical individual, a Rembrandt. And I went not this weekend, but the the the prior weekend to the Frick Museum on a Sunday afternoon. I thought I would stop at, and I I went and I saw the self-portrait in the Frick Collection. And it’s a large self-portrait of Rembrandt, and it’s such an amazing. That he has this very large stomach and painted in a gold fabric and he has some type of tuning across the top and a lot of imposto in the paint. And I’ve looked at this painting and I tried to just open myself up to what he would be trying to share with us. It’s and it it. I walked away that really about the celebration of the senses and what we can experience, what you can possibly feel in any given moment, and also the the entitlement, the. And the desire for the understanding of what that in height meant could be that message is lost without somebody to see it. The only reason that that painting exists is to share that information with others. Now that was a Dutch artist. There was a artist from the the Netherlands, and I’m viewing it in New York in a in American museum at the Frick. And it’s telling me how I could have a much more interesting Baster life.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
First of all, that’s that’s terrific. But as a child, I spent a lot of time growing up in Europe because my father was a a diplomat and I thought the whole world looked like Paris, didn’t know that it didn’t, and then we we moved back to the United States, I think was in high school. And I I had this idea of what California looked like, but I couldn’t express it. I’d never been to California. But then I saw David hot and he’s painting called splat. And I saw a a British artist who had gone to California and painted something that was just so. Morning that captured California more than probably many artists in California and and when I went to California the first time. To Los Angeles, all I could think of was that painting and how that painting affected me. In thinking about this idea of this place. And it was a a visceral reaction.
Jeff Koons
Absolutely. And you know. Stuart, I hope too. That you know people and hopefully I think there are opportunities where really around the world people can come across an image that like a a balloon doll, pretty iconic type of imagery. And when I made the balloon dog and only made a couple of them. But they’re they’re different versions of them that people have made all around the world that make reference to it. I was really, you know, thinking about something that could be kind of mythic and something that would unite people. And I thought actually I could understand just like a a Venus of willendorf for some type of object that there would be a ritual that would kind of take place whatever the local community would be in the past, kind of a tribal type of a. Ready. And but in today’s world, that people would rally around it. I kept the feeling of that. When I look at the balloon dogs, a smaller version could be like a Venus of willendorf that you would have in your hand or a larger version would be something that people could physically. Kind of rally around. And most recently, I don’t know if you saw, but one of the balloon dogs became broke in, in an ark there and I was really surprised at the type of response that took place internationally. It was in so many different newspapers at different news organizations. All around the world, we’re sharing this story, and then I realized that this is exactly what I was always wanting that again, that a community could rally around this up.
Ambassador Stuart Holliday
And they did and. And Jeff, I wanted to just take the opportunity to say that thank you for the work you do and for bringing incredible creatives. I would say not only, you know, inspirational art, but the spirit behind it. The spirit that’s based on the idea that if we can create some shared community and collaboration, we’ll have a better world and on behalf of Meridian, I wanted to thank you very, very much for your time and we’ll be continually to follow your incredible achievements say to you, Jeff.
Jeff Koons
Ambassador Holiday, thank you.
Host
Thank you for joining us today on culture exchanges, a podcast that examines the impact of cultural diplomacy in its many forms on global relations. We’d like to thank our guests on this episode for taking the time to share their expertise. Our podcast editor, Ed Bishop, and our listeners for taking the time to engage in the world of cultural diplomacy.
